OK, I used the search function but couldn't find the answer to my specific question.

I just finished putting together my mini trailer from Harbor Freight. The Da'Lan hitch is in the mail. But what I want to know is where is the best place to put the tires, the front or back of the trailer. I have seen different setups on other cars (Z3's, Miata's, etc.) but my question is geared specifically towards the E36 M3.

My current tire/wheel combo weight is approximately 48 lbs each. Due to the width of the tires (245) I can only place 3 side by side so that makes a total wheel/tire weight of approx 144 lbs. (the 4th tire will go in the trunk spare tire well). The big storage box I am guessing weighs 10 lbs max. My old "milk crate" of tools I usually bring with me may weigh 30-40 lbs max. The tire jack comes in at around 36 lbs. Misc items (fold out chair, etc) may weigh in at another 10 lbs. These numbers are being conservative on the heavy side. Now since the storage box gives me more storage capacity, I am considering bringing more stuff like a jack stand to hold up the trailer when not on the car or more tools "just in case."

My concern is tongue weight and proper trailer load balance. I saw one set-up on an E36 M3 (and this was the only one I have actually seen personally on an M3) that had the tires in the front (17x9 SSR Comps with 245/40 Hoosiers). He told me he did it this way because when the tires were in the rear (with the storage box loaded in the front), the trailer tipped over when released from the car (he didn't mention anything about tongue weight).

My gut is telling me to put the tires in the front since the tongue weight should be less than the 200 lb limit of the trailer. But what are your thoughts? Again, this is specifically for the E36 M3.

Convention dictates that the tongue weight should be about 10% of the total trailer weight. In general, more tongue weight makes the trailer more stable. Since a tire trailer loaded with tires and a tool box weighs ~500lbs, I imagine it would be safe to set up the trailer for a little more than 10% tongue weight if you wanted to.


Ed

I have basically the exact same setup (Da'lan hitch & the same trailer), only with an E36 325is.

When I was planning what to do my main concern was getting the 4 wheels on the trailer since I figured I'll carry the other stuff in the car. Now I'm using 235 width 17' tires, so I could get them to sit 4 across vertically, but only barely and they had to sit above the frame of the trailer, which was more fab work than I wanted to do at the time (ultimately I may switch to this setup next winter when I have more time to devote to it).

So what I did was put 2 wheels vertically in the back, and I layed the other 2 down in the front of the trailer. I cut my deck specifically for this layout, like this:

[ T ] front - 2 wheels layed flat (t is for tire obviously)
T[ ]T back of trailler - 2 wheels sitting vertically

My wheels fit perfectly in the back frame of the trailer so I went with that. This also spreads out the load over the trailer fairly evenly (per that fun little sticker) and the tongue weight is pretty light.

You do get some storage space on the trailer between the 2 vertical wheels and on either side of the front wheels. I could put my jack, or tool box at one of these spots with some better bracketing/securing, but I just carry that stuff in the car.

This layout works well for me so hopefully it's helpful for you! Enjoy!

-Saint

Saint,

Interesting setup. I don't think I have seen a setup like that. In my case, everything needs to be on the trailer (with the exception of the one tire in the spare tire well). Thanks for the input though.

Oh ok.. hmm..

Well, do your wheels fit in the rear part of the trailer frame? If so, then I'd suggest that's where you 3 wheels go (vertically) then you build a deck for your stuff. Were you thinking of putting the tools/jack in the storage bin or securing them seperately?

With your tools and jack on the front part of the trailer I'd think you should be fine with weight distrubution and tongue weight..

Oh, one problem I remembered about wiring up the trailer (if you haven't already). I ended up having to run a ground wire from the taillights to the front ground because I couldn't ever get a good ground at the back of the trailer. We tried several different spots with the paint sanded off and nothing would work at the back..

Anyway, keep us posted as to what you decide. Thanks!

-Saint

Some thoughts - I don't use one of these Harbor Freight mini-trailers, so take it all with a grain of salt.

First of all, is it easier to load your wheels on the front or the back of the trailer? With the height of the box, how hard/easy is it to lift your heavy stuff into the box? Front of the trailer tends to have a little more limited access than the rear, so you might want to choose where you put stuff by the convenience.

Second, you need to get the tongue weight right. 50-60 lbs sounds about right - if you go too light, the tongue will kind of beat on the hitch when you're towing. If you go too heavy, I'd be concerned about overstressing the bottom of the spare tire well where the hitch bolts on.

Third, the front of the trailer is naturally going to be a little heavier than the rear when fully loaded, so that the tongue weight is right. So, when you unhitch your fully loaded trailer, the tongue is going to rest on the pavement or on a jack stand. If you have the tires on the front, when you remove them the front will get light and the back will drop to the pavement. Better watch out that you don't get conked by the tongue as it goes up in the air! Unless, of course, you remember to put a jack stand under the back of the trailer before you unload your tires. Because of this, I'd be more inclined to put the tires in the back, unless they weigh so much that the trailer tips backwards when you load it up...

Oh, yeah - about trailer wiring. It's worth it to solder and shrink tube all of your trailer wiring. Unless you have a really good ratcheting crimp tool, crimp connections just aren't very reliable on a trailer. So, you end up futzing with the wiring trying to get your running lights to turn back on, usually late at night while it's raining. A few years ago I ripped out all the wiring on my trailer and totally rewired it. Every connection was soldered, coated with that liquid insulation stuff, and then covered with shrink tubing. Rubber grommets were used where ever the wires went through the frame. All the wires were zip-tied in place every foot or so. Haven't had a single electrical problem since.

Jim

How can I determine if the tongue weight is 50-60 lbs? The total weight of 3 tires side by side vertically is approx 150 lbs. The total weight of the storage box and tools is approx 100 lbs (could be a bit more if I add more stuff, but I don't see the storage box with tools etc ever weighing more than the tires and wheels).

Convenience is not that big a deal although access to the storage box from the rear of the trailer would be better. Loading the tires on the front of the trailer is no big deal though (at least it doesn't look that way :) ).

Given a choice, I would rather have the tongue be a bit heavier than the rear of the trailer and have the tongue rest on a jack stand when the trailer is unhitched from the car (I already have a jack stand for that purpose) rather than have the trailer flip back as soon as it is unhitched from the car.

http://www.hodgeman.org/talon/trailer.jpg

This pic shows the most common setup I have seen. If you notice, the tongue is on the floor even with the tires on the back. According to the guy who did this wright-up, the trailer would fall back unless the the storage box was just about full. I would rather have the trailer always be tongue heavy, even when the storage box is almost empty. That is why I am leaning towards having the tires in the front. But I don't want to have too much weight up forward to prevent unwanted stress on the hitch, as Jim mentioned.

Based on th responses here, and my only bservation of a triler on an E36 M3, I think I will put the tires up forward. Unless there is anyone else that has more input to the contrary.

Thanks for the input so far guys......

James,

I'm in the process of finishing my trailer.

My setup has the four tires in the front with an aluminum box bolted to the rear. The box is setup so that I can actually stand the trailer up on it's rear and the trailer is balanced.

My biggest issue was getting 4 17x9 wheels with 255 tires on the trailer. 3 fit across vertically. 4 will fit laying down with 2" of tire hanging off on each side. I have decided to go with the laying down method and will construct something to extend the side of the trailer back to the fenders to protect the sidewalls of the bottom tires.

Weight distribution was only 10 lbs heavier in the front then in the rear when everything was loaded up.

Now all I need is for my hitch to arrive from D'lan.

Originally posted by jmciver
Given a choice, I would rather have the tongue be a bit heavier than the rear of the trailer and have the tongue rest on a jack stand when the trailer is unhitched from the car (I already have a jack stand for that purpose) rather than have the trailer flip back as soon as it is unhitched from the car.
Uh, I don't think you're reading what I wrote.

Trailer won't flip back as soon as it's unhitched from the car, if you unhitch it when it's fully loaded. Since it has tongue weight, there's no way that it can flip backwards - by definition, to have a certain amount of tongue weight means that the front of the trailer is heavier than the rear.

What you do have to worry about is what happens to the trailer when you start unpacking it. When you take the three tires off the trailer, will it tip forward or backwards? If you have the three tires in the rear, and the trailer is front-heavy when it's fully loaded, then it will become even more front-heavy when you remove the tires. If you have the tires in the front, and the box behind the rear axle, what's going to happen when you remove the tires?

I'd say that your best bet is to get a hunk of plywood and some tie-down straps (or rope, or bungy cords). Temporarily put the plywood on the trailer frame, then pile up all your stuff where you want it and lash it down with the tie-downs. Then see how the trailer balances. Don't have to go nuts with the tie-downs - you're just balancing the trailer, not towing it anywhere. Get a bathroom scale, stand on it, then lift the tongue and see how much weight it adds. Then remove your wheels and see if the frame tips. Etc., etc., etc. I'd guess that in a couple of hours, you should be able to figure out what's going to work best for you...

Jim

Originally posted by John in Houston

My setup has the four tires in the front with an aluminum box bolted to the rear. The box is setup so that I can actually stand the trailer up on it's rear and the trailer is balanced.


John, when you say stand the trailer up on it's rear, do you mean all the way, wheels of the ground, up? Seems like that might be a good way to store the trailer, but what keeps it from tipping backwards when you take your wheels off?

James,
Another idea if you want to get really complicated. You could fab up some legs of the approriate height and attach them to the back of trailer (with hinges) so that when you get where your going, you lower these legs, then unhitch and place the tongue on the jackstand. Then as you unload the trailer, as the weight shifts, and as the trailer tilts backwards, the rear legs support the rear of the trailer...

Then you can upgrade it to hydraulic self jacking where the trailer has 4 legs, each electronically lowered into place with the flip of a switch. Then flip another switch and the legs extend picking the trailer up off it's wheels (just an inch or two)... :devillook To much Monster garage.. But think about it. The hydraulic pump and resevior could me mounted on the tongue which would help keep it tongue heavy.. Oh nevermind...

-Saint

Hah, you call that a trailer, seems like a lot of to-do over nothing, my '95 M3 had no issue pulling this one:

http://members.roadfly.com/teamz4/Photo021.jpg

Jim,

Thanks for clearing that up for me. I see what you are getting at now.

Saint,

You are just plain nuts ;) , but I like your imagination :) !!

John,

I saw another setup (on line) that also had 255 wide tires. It had 3 tires vertically next to each other (on the rear of the trailer) and the 4th tire strapped to the top of the storage box. I am considering this method since I may try the 255 wide tires in the future and I doubt they will fit in the spare tire well (the 245 barely fits there now :stickoutt ).

James... yup... wheels off the ground. Frame and box are all that are touching. I have 2 jackstands that I put under the axle to keep it in position.

Still takes up a lot of room in my garage... but it's better than before.

I hope to have the tire rack mounted and finished this Saturday. I'll take digital photos when complete.

On the 'fourth tire on the box'... I thought of that... but if I need something out of the box, the weight of the wheel on the lid seemed like it would be too much for the hinges to hold... and unmounting the tire just seemed crazy. 3 vertical and one in the trunk sounds better if you are going to go that way.

Several years ago, when i towed a small tire trailer with the Mustang, i always unloaded the wheels/tires and tool box contents before i unhooked the trailer from the car (also hooked it up to the car before loading everything)... that way there's no chance of it tipping over while you're loading/unloading. The unloaded trailer is much easier to roll around by hand too. :D

That same tire trailer was originally a 4'x8' (two piece bed) that i assembled as a 4'x4' (more room than the smaller 40"x48" trailers) which held my 16x9.5's with 265 V700's perfectly (although, i laid them down in stacks of two on the front half of the trailer).

I'm going to be getting another tire trailer for the M3 soon too, and i'm probably gonna just get a 40"x48" trailer from HF this time, but i think i'm gonna get this slightly heavier duty one (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=2575). It has an "A-tounge", it's powdercoated black (instead of BRIGHT RED! ;) ), and it comes with a diamond tread steel bed (the plywood deck on my last one always split and cracked quicker than i prefered, regardless of how much sealant/paint i put on it).

I've been thinking about the loaded configuration for the wheels/tires and toolbox and just decided to stack two on the front half (laid flat on top of each other) and two on the back half (both stacks on either the right hand side or left hand side), and find or have made a tool box that spans the length of the trailer (48") and is approximately 16" wide to take up the rest of the room on the trailer bed. This configuration would evenly load the trailer front to back with the wheels/tires and you could add a little more weight to the front for tounge weight by packing the tool box accordingly. :D

Originally posted by TeamZ4
Hah, you call that a trailer, seems like a lot of to-do over nothing, my '95 M3 had no issue pulling this one:

http://members.roadfly.com/teamz4/Photo021.jpg
I actually like that set-up, but I am too cheap to get a trailer like that ;) .....

Designed my trailer to hold 4 255/40-17s side-by-side across the front and storage box on the rear. After assembly of the basic trailer, I mocked everything up using the tires and loaded storage box. Shifted the storage box, loaded as it typically would be, forward and rearward to find the optimal placement for the tongue weight I wanted - note in the pics that the storage box is slightly rearward of being flush to the trailer frame.

In the storage box are an aluminum floor jack, plywood to protect asphalt, cordless drill kit, small toolbox, air tank, and a small bin for numbers/tire gauge/sunscreen/etc, etc..

One note which is very important. The ball mount supplied with the DeLan hitch did not give sufficient rise, causing my trailer to sit nose-down. This has the ill effect of substantially increasing the amount of tongue weight - the trailer axle basically acts as a fulcrum. I ended up purchasing a ball mount with, I believe, 5-in rise to achieve level trailer attitude when hitched to the car. Cruising at 80-85mph I'd never know my trailer was back there except for seeing it in the mirror

Good luck - here are some pics:

http://webpages.charter.net/boostfed/AutoX Trailer 1.JPG

http://webpages.charter.net/boostfed/AutoX Trailer 2.JPG

3MTA3,

I really like your setup. After doing a very crude mock-up on my trailer last night I was surprised to find that I could fit all 4 of my 245/45-17 wheel/tires side by side just your setup. This way I don't have to put the 4th tire in the spare tire well in the trunk.

A few questions, how did you attach the side bars to hold the tires in place, weld? Also, why did you choose to go with an aluminum diamond deck as opposed to wood? Where did you get the deck material, Lowes/ Home Depot?

where do you guys store your trailers? most 2 car garages don't have enough room for the cars, a tire trailer, and anything else that belongs in the garage. i've heard of some people putting it on a hoist above their cars, but that sounds scary to me.

From the picture, it looks as if his bars for holding the wheels are definitely welded. I'm assuming he used diamond plate because it holds up better, won't wear out, and because it's strong enough that you can bolt additional eyelets and tiedown connections to it without attaching them directly to the trailer frame.

Looks really well built, and I love the friction tie-downs that help secure the tires!!

Originally posted by BJO
i've heard of some people putting it on a hoist above their cars, but that sounds scary to me.

Your garage door motor and rails are above your car...does that scare you?

If you mount the hoist properly, there shouldn't be any problems.

well, the garage door motor and rails don't weigh over 200 lbs.

Originally posted by BJO
well, the garage door motor and rails don't weigh over 200 lbs.

The door, motor and rails almost certainly weigh as much as or close to the unladen trailer.

200 pounds is nothing. I think you can buy a single screw-in attachment point that is rated to 200 pounds.

Assuming you have decent attachment points, hanging the trailer above your car shouldn't be an issue at all.

Originally posted by BJO
where do you guys store your trailers? most 2 car garages don't have enough room for the cars, a tire trailer, and anything else that belongs in the garage. i've heard of some people putting it on a hoist above their cars, but that sounds scary to me.
This is an issue I have as well (no big deal until the wife wants to get in from the cold in the winter time :D ). I found this system here:

http://www.rnventions.com/index_files/image089.jpg

Although it is designed for truck caps, it is rated at 200 lbs and bolts to the rafters in your garage. That of course is just the unloaded trailer. More pics are available at their website at www.rnventions.com.

Of course I would want to be able to keep the trailer loaded so my imagination has considered trying to use a host like this one:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/44000-44099/44006.gif

With a 880 lb capacity, it can more than handle a loaded trailer. It is just a matter of bolting it to the ceiling of the garage properly.

My 3rd option I have been contemplating is building a small loft in the garage that allows my wife to drive her SUV under it (just the hood of the truck). Not much more than 4-5 ft off the floor. Then it is just a matter of using some ramps and simple pulleu system to get the trailer up on the loft (since the trailer is pretty heavy when loaded).

So many things to think about....... :confused:

Thanks for the positive words guys - I'm very pleased with how it turned out myself.

James - To your questions, yes the uprights for the tire rack are welded to the trailer frame. I would not see a problem with bolting them, but went with the welded method for security in anticipation of unattended nights in a hotel parking lot. You can't see it in the picture, but to get the right spacing btwn the uprights, I used a small rectangle of 3/16 plate as a spacer btwn the trailer frame and the upright. Went with the aluminum tread plate since it was lighter than wood and no future rot issues, but as Bryan pointed out i got the added bonus of a rigid structure for tire tie-down anchors - you'll need them.

You can buy similar materials at Home Depot but they are hella-expensive. I went to a local metal scrap yard, and paid less than 50 bucks for the tread plate, uprights, spacers and crossbar all cut to size out of scrap. The bushings for the crossbar are modified Liquid-tite conduit connectors.

Best of luck
Mike

I paid $1,000 for that enclosed 5 x 8 used Wells Cargo tailer, sold it 5 years later for $600. The nice thing was all I had to do was pull it in and leave it parked outside, but didn't leave the tires in there long term during the summer because of the heat. I also had it setup so a cot could be quickly folded out on one side and spent many a drive-over night catching a few zzzz's along the way. Everything stayed nice and dry when it rained, including me.

those were the days ...

Originally posted by 3MTA3
Thanks for the positive words guys - I'm very pleased with how it turned out myself.

James - To your questions, yes the uprights for the tire rack are welded to the trailer frame. I would not see a problem with bolting them, but went with the welded method for security in anticipation of unattended nights in a hotel parking lot. You can't see it in the picture, but to get the right spacing btwn the uprights, I used a small rectangle of 3/16 plate as a spacer btwn the trailer frame and the upright. Went with the aluminum tread plate since it was lighter than wood and no future rot issues, but as Bryan pointed out i got the added bonus of a rigid structure for tire tie-down anchors - you'll need them.

Mike,

Did you do the welding yourself? Also, did you just bolt the pad-eyes for the tire hold downs to the aluminum deck or are they actually bolted to the center cross beam in the trailer frame? One more thing, what type of tie-downs are those for your tires?

I have a friend with a MIG welder, so he did the welding for me.

Where the screw eyes are positioned they go thru both the alum. decking and the crossmember of the trailer - extra sturdy and it eliminated all rattling. One thing I wish I had done was laid a bead of silicone between the decking and the trailer frame before joining the two.

You can get the tie-downs at Northern or a local hardware store for about 10 bucks each. Here's a link to the ones i have:
Rope Ratchet (http://www.roperatchet.com/roperatchets.shtml)

3MTA3,

My trailer project is coming together but I have one other question for you. How thick was that aluminum deck?

I got a price quote for a 4x8 sheet of the stuff (since that is the smallest size that can be sold) and it was a bit more than I would want to pay (well, a whole lot more actually :eek: !!).

Your pic looks like 1/8th inch thick, but I can't really tell.

James -

The tread plate is 3/32" aluminum. It sucks that there is not a local scrapper you can source it from. As I recall, Home Depot wanted like $60 for a half-sheet, then I would've had to cut it myself. There's an old-timer out in the country here who has a backyard metal business. Just went looking thru one of his scrap piles. As you can imagine, it was interesting trying to explain to him what I was building and why...

On a side note, I noticed from your sig you have Evosport pullies and the fan delete mod. Any overheating prob's with that combination? I already have fan delete and was thinking about pullies - was concerned about the underdriven water pump with no fan. Also, are you running the small alt. pulley or std size, and have you had any charging problems? Overall, do you think they're worth the bucks? - Thanks

3MTA3,

I think you got real lucky finding that sheet of aluminum. I found one local supplier that sells 4x8 ft sheets of the stuff. The thinest stuff they carried was 1/8 in at $230 per sheet :eek: !!! Home Depot or Lowes didn't carry anything remotely close in the size I needed.

Since I need to have my trailer ready for a local event this weekend (which is the trial run before I drive the car 3+ hrs to Washington DC for a National Tour event the following weekend), I didn't have the time nor desire to go looking for and searching through some scrap metal places. I ended up going with some 1 in thick plywood that I will just paint. I was, however, able to find a metal shop that had channel steel for me to use for the side supports.

As far as the pullies go, I have had no problems with the pullies and the fan delete mod. I also have the underdriven alternator pulley as well with no problems charging the battery. The only time the alt pulley may give you a problem is if you are stuck in a lot of stop and go traffic since once you are at speed the alternator has more than enouigh power from the engine. Even then, this would probably only happen if you had a high power stereo system in the car (which is why EVO Sport sells a standard alt pulley with their kits as well).

I love the pulley mod (one of the few mods that registered on the butt dyno ;) ). I think it goes real well with the fan delete mod and a lightweight flywheel.

Well, I finally got everything done, including loading up the trailer. It was a little more work than I had originallly thought (which is almost always the case with any project I tackle :stickoutt !!!). But in the end, I liked the results. Thanks for all of the help guys!!

I'm late to this thread but I'd thought I would a few pics of how I placed my 255 Victoracers and toolbox on my mini-trailer. Because of the huge tires and wheel sizes, there was no way to put them all four side-by-side. I went with three in the back and one on top of the tool box. This gave me a moderate amount of front tongue weight on the trailer.


http://houston-bmwcca.com/z3/images/DMpics/PDC_0006c.jpg http://houston-bmwcca.com/z3/images/DMpics/PDC_0009c.jpg http://houston-bmwcca.com/z3/images/DMpics/PDC_0010.jpg

Originally posted by OldFart
I'm late to this thread but I'd thought I would a few pics of how I placed my 255 Victoracers and toolbox on my mini-trailer. Because of the huge tires and wheel sizes, there was no way to put them all four side-by-side. I went with three in the back and one on top of the tool box. This gave me a moderate amount of front tongue weight on the trailer.

Why didn't you place a deck on the frame of the trailer so you could get all 4 255/40's side by side? After looking at 3MTA3's setup I decided to go the deck route.

Did any of you get a new hitch? I'd like one that raises the ball up about 4". Currently, the top of the hitch (not the ball) sits at 10" above the ground. I'd like to get that to be about 12" above the ground so the trailer sits a little more even.

Comments?

No big deal - if you have a receiver hitch, all you need is a new ball mount with the amount of rise you want. I went down to my local trailer place, and bought one - they even transferred the ball over to the new mount for free.

Jim

Jim... Thanks!

Actually the ball mount that came with my hitch is just about at the right height based on my car height and the fact that my trailer has the larger highway tires. It could maybe be 1 or 2 inches higher, but I doubt it would make that much of a difference. That being said, I still may go out and get one to make the car and trailer perfectly horizontal.

Yeah, I've got the 12" tires on the trailer. There is a noticable slope even without the trailer loaded. Raising the hitch up some would definitely benefit me.

My car is 3/4" taller than GCs recommended height in the rear... which is kinda low.

Do they have such hitches for E30s?

I want the same kinda thing for my car :)

Originally posted by Low Level
Do they have such hitches for E30s?

I want the same kinda thing for my car :)
Yes, Da'Lan does make a hitch for the E30.