We have a 2000 E38 with 127K on the clock. I replaced the Crankshaft positioning sensor and the O2 sensors two weeks ago.

While driving on the freeway later, the car stumbles as though it's out of GAS (it's not) run's some, stumbles again and again. Just as I pull over it dies. There is no check engine light on, or service engine soon. So I tried to restart the car a half dozen times with no luck.

I had it towed to a local UNKNOWN german shop, they say it's the fuel pump. $662.00 later it still won't start. Here are the symptoms:

Fuel pressure before replacement 30 PSI.
The shop tells me the plugs are wet, with the follwing things coded, the knock sensors, the speed sensor and the throttle position sensor. He's clueless and gave me an estimate of minimum 2K to repair. any ideas?

The plugs are wet with what? Oil? Gas? Is the car getting spark of any kind? Pull a plug and ground it against the engine to check for spark while cranking.

Take your air filter out and try starting it again. Have them put the old fuel pump back in, as they diagnosed it incorrectly and you are not paying for a fuel filter which does not work.

I'm betting it's not getting enough air.

jake

The spark Plugs are wet with fuel according to the shop. I don't know if there is spark at the plug.

I don't get it, the shop figured you needed a fuel pump because the plugs are wet with fuel???:eyecrazy
Sounds like you're getting fuel to the cylinders but no spark.
Take it to a reputable BMW shop and let them have a go at the diagnosis.

Unplug the MAF and see if it starts. Try giving it gas while cranking...I know, it's FI....just do it. If it starts and backfires through the intake, stop trying to start the car until you get a NEW MAF. You're able to get away w/ using the cheaper drop in VW MAF, so do a search for part threads to find the part # and the cheaper supplier.

BTW - tell that shop they're a bunch of fucking idiots. They're unknown becuase they pull bullshit like what they did to you, losing all respect. Don't ever go back to them, and if anything, they should charge you for SHIT becuase the pump is stupidly easy to swap. Get you're money back, all of....even paying labor for that shouldn't be more than 1/2 an hour. Pull seat, undo like 6 screws, couple clamps, reverse.....easy.

update dad's day 08. got the car back finally at no cost ! battery is dead from them trying to start repeatedly. upon charging car will start and run for 10 seconds then die. Ordered a new fuel filter, after R&R (btw; where is it under the car?) then will check pressure and dump the real codes with my OBD reader. Thank you everyonefor all your suggestions.

DON'T reset the codes....if it's the MAF, the car definately wont run until you get the new one installed. Leaving the codes also leaves the adaption values teh ECU has learned, so it'll continue to run on what it thinks is gonna make it run...you reset those codes w/ a crappy MAF and it has nothing to work w/ so it won't run at all.

Get a MAF from Land Rover (they used BMW M62 engines for some time). Plug and play.

Normally a MAF will throw a light, though.

It's getting fuel, the plugs get spark and it runs for a short time and dies, it is not starved for fuel, so....how about air (is something clogging your air inlet, what does your air filter look like?). What led you to replace the CPS(s) in the first place, was there a SES light displayed?

Is there water in the fuel?

jake

My MAF threw misfire codes, but nothing specifically saying that it was a MAF failure. The RR is another good one, just find out which is cheaper because you can use both...unfortunately us 98 and older cars aren't plug and play like you, we have to rewire things :(

Good point, forgot about that. Whatever you do, don't pay the inflated prices that BMW wants for that thing.

jake

Today we went and tried to figure out the problem.
This time we put some fuel stabilizer to get the potential water out and some octane booster.
The car started and ran for almost a mintue. It idled smoothly with no sputtering or rpm changes. Then we got a code from the obd reader saying the crankshaft position sensor was bad.....again. This is a brand new one we just replaced. We took the MAF off and tried to start like some of you suggested and still got nothing. What might cause the CPS sensor to go bad again? After only 500 miles of driving.
Does anyone know what the OHM reading on the cps is supposed to be?

how did it work out?

Replaced the CPS with a factory unit, car starts and runs but occasionally dies at idle. Took it to Crevier BMW who diagnosed the issue as a leaking intake and for $950 they could repair the problem. Picked the car up, bill was now $1150 & the weasel of a service advisor was nowhere to be found. Drove the car 20 feet down the driveway and it died! Started it back up, drove it around the circle to pull back into the service drive and the engine failsafe warning program kicked on. I told them "nice try" now find out what's really wrong! They now say the thermostat control connection is leaking water and it is being forced through the wire loom to the DME. Hard to believe when there were no codes of any kind before they got the car. I've requested BMW NA's intervention at this point

Jesus bro, shitty. Another reason why I NEVER goto the dealerships. I guess I can see how the connection to the sensor and it leaks thought the wiring, but did they peel back the sheathing or is this another outta their a$$ guess? Last time I had any major issues w/ my car, the indy I took it to wanted to run fuel pressure tests, pull the heads and check the vavle for carbon build-up, etc....to the tune of almost $1500. I said to give me my keys back, played in the parking lot for about 4hrs...the car would either backfire, not run, and when it did run, it was extremely shitty w/ a terrible idle. Through playing around I replaced the fuel filter and spark plugs, checked vacuum lines and diaphragms, pulled each front 02 sensor one at a time...viola...plugged cat was causing it!!! Left the 02 just hanging there, drove to the nearest exhaust shop and $200 later I was on the road happy again. NOTHING that shop wanted to do would have pointed them to the cats, but i'm sure they wouldn't have had a problem "experimenting" on my dime.

I hope you get it figured out bro.

So this started last May, and it's still not fixed?

Shitty indeed

BMW North America told me they would have the shop foreman and service manager call me on 07/29/08 to discuss my concerns. In looking at the threads on e38.org and here if there had been a vacumn leak in the intake system the car would have triggered the Service Engine Soon light. Another indicator that they are simply throwing parts at it trying to find the problem. At least I have a loaner 335i to drive while they perform their R&D.

Are they going to discount the service?

I'd leave this dealer, never go back.

Too late to leave now...only thing left is to make sure you get your pound of flesh instead of letting them.

Too late to leave now...only thing left is to make sure you get your pound of flesh instead of letting them.

I meant leave them after they fixed it...

Oh hell yeah

THis is why I only work on my own car!! Hope all is well, I feel your pain!! I finally had enough about 10 years ago and started working on my own cars from then on. So far so good.

Has anyone else had this "intake reseal" completed? Stealer claims that the car needed it based upon an "additive mixture high" (Translation, running lean, Huh?) reading on the computer in concert with the MAF issuing a fault code and the Thermostat issuing a fault code.
I thought the SES light would be triggered if the car was running lean !
Wouldn't a faulty MAF create similar anomalies in the mixture?

I dunno what an "intake reseal" is, but i'd venture to say in non-technical terms that they're gonna disassemble the intake and spooge the gasket w/ liquid gasket maker before they re-assemble it. There are some BMW techs on here along w/ online TIS documents or own the disks that are floating around. I'd say you spend some time doing your homework and finding these guys while the stealership is milling around more ideas of how to empty your wallet while the owner is golfing on your dime. To get the most exposure in situations like this, which can be frowned upon, but I post critical questions like this on all the forums. Do it on the 5 and 7 sub-forums since it's the same motor, then do it all the other messageboards... www.5driver.com, www.bimmerfest.com, www.bimmerboard.com, www.dtmpower.net, www.m5board.com (E39/S62 is a similar block), www.maxbimmer.com, http://forum.bmw5.co.uk/, and www.roadfly.com . You can either copy and paste your original thread and merge youre replies and situation into one complete posting, or you can be lazy and just post this link....hoping people will follow it. Am I correct in assuming BMW NA didn't do anything for you? I'd personally get the car outta there, take her home, and get intimate on your own hourly rate instead of their probably $85+ rate they're charging you. Just like my experience w/ the indy that I went to......they're just gonna keep trying shit until something works.

An intake reseal is BMW speak to R&R the TPI manifold and the rear plate to it. $235 parts, $900 labor! BMW NA has not been back in contact with me for 3 days, the dealer's lackey Service advisor called & WANTED TO KNOW IF THEY COULD GO AHEAD WITH THE SUGGESTED REPAIRS! LOL. I asked him if he had forgotten our earlier conversation! Furthermore don't call me till BMW NA has looked at the car!

Are you fcuking kidding me!!! Jesus man, take that car home and do it yourself. Find a friend, post asking for local members help, something. Better yet, go get a 95-98 pre-VANOS manifold and you'll have a $$Dinan$$ upgraded manifold for like 1/8th price and a fixed intake leak in one fail swoop! I'm assuming TPI is the manifold, but that rear plate on the back of it is basically a glorified crankcase breather which is known to clog up, but it usually causes slight smoking at start-ups, not the issues that you're having. NEVER goto the stealerships....NEVER!!

I commute 220 mi/day and the rental car was killing my back, Soooo... I paid the $1150 with the understanding the car was completely repaired and I could drive it home. My son and I (1fst840kid) own Suzy Q Customs and I've built 50+ hotrods. I guess it's time for me to get intimate with CPU contolled technologies.

Fair enough. Hopefully it works out, or else it's time to get your son to earn his rent ;)