.: DDM Tuning - Pricing Warning!!! [Archive] - Bimmerforums

SoCaLe39

05-30-2008, 02:52 PM

Don't worry about us. We are raping your parents on all the stuff they buy for their Mercedes.

This comment alone makes me wonder about the integrity of the way you do business:confused.

Although bringing prices down will ultimately only benefit the end consumer, I doubt very much that by under cutting your own vendors and under cutting competitor pricing, your manufacturer will support your unethical business strategy and will find another source of distribution to protect their product. Being a Marketing Director myself I cannot even think of a logical reason of why you would do this to "not make one penny" and rather piss off competitors to ultimately bring down the profits for many companies to be competitive with your "wholesale club" pricing:nono. You might as well shoot yourself in the foot or go sell honda parts. You are the exact reason why more reputable companies, who have more to offer than a reasonable price, eventually go out of business.

I personally wouldn't support your malicious business reasoning because it seems there is more underlying circumstances in which you haven't disclosed to make this a logical business strategy. Fact is businesses DO NOT sell to NOT make a profit, it financially doesn't make sense. In the end I'd rather support a company who will uphold the BMW community including its vendors the way it should be instead of using deceitful strategies (if you want to even call it that) that will eventually hurt the industry and the BMW community.

Simply put, what you are promoting will do nothing but hurt the aftermarket industry for BMWs because if businesses cannot make money they will NOT create new products. Its a basic business principle.

DDM Tuning Business:nono

///Montizzle

05-30-2008, 02:55 PM

Jesus...calm down man. Im sure he was just joking. Loosen your belt a bit, its turning you into a tight-ass.

P.S. Post pics of M5 kthx ;)

SoCaLe39

05-30-2008, 03:13 PM

^^^^ Haha. Its not so much the comment but the whole idea of offering parts at cost. I am a businessman so seeing these things just irritates me especially when things are said that don't make any sense. I just think people should realize that this will in no way promote anything positive in the future.

As for the photos, unforunately I haven't posted enough on this forum to post url/image yet. I'll see if I can link a thread from another forum with my pics but there probably won't be a clickable link.

SoCaLe39

05-30-2008, 04:01 PM

Here are some links of my M5 (old photos):

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=93475

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=106442

I ended up keeping it :D

97'scort

05-30-2008, 04:21 PM

Very likely.

Jim

E-mail sent, Jim. Thanks!

jsp98m3

05-30-2008, 05:44 PM

Jim what about suspension pricing? Will you get that at wholesale pricing at some point? I've been waiting for that specifically since joining the wholesale club.

I'm getting this solved in two ways.

1. We are getting better pricing on parts from the usual manufacturers.

2. There is minimum priicing from a lot of manufacturers and minimum wholesale pricing as well. BUT these people also have a OEM program. You will very shortly start to see product from us that you will immediately recognize that just has our logo on it. Pricing will be dramatically lower.

Jim

jsp98m3

05-30-2008, 05:46 PM

One vote for more E30 stuff. ;)

Jim, will this be a progressively introduced ongoing deal (obviously not a permanent price change), or more of a all at once few day event?

More E30 stuff is coming. I have started an E30 project car and as I continue that project, I'll be adding strategic things.

Jim

jsp98m3

05-30-2008, 06:01 PM

SoCaLE39,

I appreciate your comments. While I cannot disclose my entire marketing plan, I would just point you to a well known company, COSTCO.

Since you are a Marketing Manager you will have little trouble uncovering the details of their operating plan.

Also, trust me, I'm not really raping the owners of Mercedes. :)

Suppliers generally care about 1 thing. Are you selling a lot of my product, more than I was selling before? I seem to be.

It is not my job to worry about the viability of other vendors. While I don't shoot seals, harpoon whales, kick puppies or traffic in drugs, I do compete aggressively. And, as has been seen, my competitors are abandoning their bloated margins and competing with new products and more aggressive pricing.

I'm sure you could contact the usual suspects on this board and ask them if I am going to drive them out of business with my practices. After the vitriol, I'm sure you would get some statement basically along the lines that they have no sales issues at all and intend to bury me in the dustbin of history.

Good for them and good for consumers!

Capitalism works. The world economy is just humming along in spite of me or the likes of Walmart.

Nice car. Good luck to all of us.

Jim

SoCaLe39

05-30-2008, 07:42 PM

I'm sorry but you cannot compare yourself to COSTCO as the products they sell are 1) in bulk 2) out of season 3) overstocked items from manufactures. Let's not forget Costco requires an annual membership of $30-50 and the products they sell are mass produced in a scale much larger than E39 products not to mention if i walk into Costco I can purchase anything from tires to shampoo!

I'm not trying to be a prick by any means but I was once an owner of an aftermarket parts source years ago in the industry (primarily with imports). Business was great for many companies, customers were happy, new quality products were being produced and all this dramatically reduced when new inexperienced business owners opened and sold products at near cost to make a quick dollar! Needless to say I ended my venture since it wasn't worth my time making bottom dollar.

I see the same happening here which is why it frustrates me.

As for your suppliers, it sounds as if you are a wholesaler as well so I would assume you have vendors who sell the same products. If you cut these guys out, your sales volume WILL decrease inevitably and when that happens I don't think your supplier will be too happy not to mention the negative response you'll get with your business relationships.

In the end it really sounds like you'd rather hurt other businesses than make money, this is what I don't agree with.

jsp98m3

05-30-2008, 09:05 PM

Generally your grasp of it is correct, if you had all of the picture. You don't, and I'm not giving it out. I'm perfectly experienced in what I'm doing. I've done it before. I guess there are a lot of business' run by 20 somethings that fit your fears. I'm not one of them and in any case, even if you were right, the model of business you fear happening no longer exists. The business model you want is the same one I learned when I got my MBA in 1977. Times have changed.

We aren't a garage based business selling 5 packages a day. We used to be. But we aren't and business practices change as a business grows.

You state you are a Marketing Director. To have that title I guess you work for a business with more than a handful of employees? I had 268 people working for me until I retired from my job as Director in 2003. I think I have a handle on this. I started Apexcone as me being the only employee manufacturing DDE Angel Eyes when I was the first person anywhere on the planet mass producing them.

Then i got some part timers and started growing. There comes a time, maybe 3-5 times a year actually, when a business has to reassess its business model and practices and change what it does.

We sell car parts. We sell granite. We sell vacuum cleaners. We sell polyurethane and fiberglass patio and garden decorations, etc, etc. We manufacture 25-30% of the line items we sell. All of our Apexcone lighting products are made directly by us, with our own molds and tooling in China at my wife's family's factory and our own employees. I can assure you, my practices are not going to bother my suppliers, I supply well more than half of my own products by sales volume to myself. "Self, are you mad at yourself?" "No, self, I am quite happy, thank you." As for DEPO, et al, I think I order about as many headlights per month as they used to sell to the United States all year long. Don't think for a moment that my competitors haven't called to complain. They did it again last night. My orders are still churning through the system. Do you know why? I don't screw with pricing on parts for cars that are either in production or have been within the last 2 years. After 2 years, the order volume starts to drop and anything I can do to help it INCREASE is fine with the factories. They understand, what so many Americans have forgotten. Capitalism works and if I can increase their orders, nothing is going to happen to my supply.

If you have an argument, it would be with people similar to me that also go dump on ebay and craigs list. I don't. But I don't even complain about them. Competition makes the economy work. It works for consumers and it thins out the inefficient and greedy from the supply side. Adding wolves to a deer herd makes it stronger. I'm just the wolf in the parts supplier herd. Its not my concern if the fox complains I eat too much.

Finally, your argument that I am inhibiting innovation by taking the financial incentive out of it for others is incorrect on its face. Before I came into the market in force (I've been here since 2001) there was almost no innovation. People just paid $700 for headlights and suppliers bought big houses and waited for the next customer. Since I've acted like the proverbial bowling ball knocking things around, these same suppliers are bringing in MORE products. They are actively looking for products and services to reinvigorate their sales. I personally think its a great thing.

Have you done what I asked? Call Bavtoys. Call Umnitza. Please ask them, are you eating well? Can you afford gas for your cars? Are you pulling your children out of private school? I think the answers will be No, Hell No! I think that you will get exactly the answer I said you would. I'm not hurting them, they intend to drive me out of the market and haven't suffered by even a penny. In fact, they will likely claim their sales are up, maybe dramatically. They may be. They might be lying. But you should ask them. Theory is a great thing. Reality is, well, its reality. Call them.

In the mean time, I've lowered consumer costs from all suppliers by about 50% and I'm making money. I think my competitors are too. I know from the size of the wire transfers I'm making to DEPO and others that they are doing fine. The only damage I see is to your sense of how the market ought to work. In fact, it doesn't work that way and hasn't since the mid-80s.

Jim

///M3Vader4dr

05-30-2008, 09:10 PM

wow from what I've read past and present, you seem like a stand-up guy! Whatever I have planned for my car I'll definitely check your site out first. keep up the good work.

jsp98m3

05-30-2008, 09:26 PM

I try to be. I don't lie and I don't steal.

I might sleep with your wife, drink your Tequila and pet your dog on the way out. But your wallet would be safe on the nightstand and I'd exit through the front door where you could see me.

Actually that's untrue, I don't drink either ;)

What is true is that I'm committed to bringing the prices of aftermarket parts in line with reality. And anything I can do to make our company improve service and prices is going to happen.

As my crazy sales will attest, I spend every morning on the way to work trying to figure out how I can drop prices on something else or how I can get the organization to function better and more economically.

SoCalE39 should realize that success is self limiting to these goals. There comes a point when you can't take anymore cost out of something and maintain quality and as an organization increases in size its cost to function due to overhead increases to the point that it cannot drive more out of it.

That is why you will see more announcements in the near future where DDM Tuning will morph into several smaller business units that will micro focus on very specific market segments. What I'm doing is just preparation. We'll operate like COSTCO for a few months and then we'll change again.

So keep watching us. I'm going to keep shaking the tree. All for your benefit.

SoCaLe39

05-30-2008, 10:31 PM

Jim, I have to say I appreciate the professional responses you have posted and can only wish you the best of luck on your venture. Obviously coming from two completely different generations, business strategies are always going to be handled differently, or I should rather say, there are many different strategies in which one may choose to between these generations. In today's world cheap pricing means everything especially in regards to where our economy is headed now. I for one have never been a big fan of the typical Chinese business model of focusing on volume more than quality and wish we as a nation were less dependent on other countries. But hey, lets be real I don't think we will ever see those days again.

Anyways, I think I'm just rambling now and have already used up too much of your time on this thread today. Hell I think from posting on just this thread my post count has allowed me to get out of my noob poster status:D

Can't wait to see responses from your competitors in the next few months....

jsp98m3

05-30-2008, 11:01 PM

There was a time about 3 months ago when people believed there was some "special" DEPO. Then we started selling them. So competitors brought out DJ Auto and sold it as a low cost alternative hoping that they could convince people we were selling fake DEPOs. After we started posting pictures of our depo shipments with their company names on the outsides of the cartons and inviting totally random customers to sit in our our calls to the factory, that pretty much stopped. So it was us selling DEPOs and them selling DEPOs and DJ Auto. We brought out Apexcone and then there appeared BT Ellipsoids.

The market is working.

There is a difference though. We make our own stuff. I've improved our lights in a few ways. Its unfortunate that most customers can't see the chronology f changes to our lights. Maybe I'll go in tomorrow and make a pictorial.

We don't have wiring errors built into our lights like DEPO does. Occasionally one slips through. But we have a program now to test the wiring on all the lights at assembly. All the vendors either do this or say they do. We add a label to the lights to document this important QC step.

The quality of the industry's Plug N Play adaptors, even from DEPO are terrible. They are a cheap solution to allow their euro lights to be sold in the USA.

As the owner and holder of the checkbook at DDM I paid for molds to make universal EURO type screw on connectors and make our own PnP harnesses now that aren't just push on female pins with a rubber sleeve to sort of keep water out.

Now, I can't offer headlights for $100 including HID and make the worlds greatest lights or harnesses. But I put a lot of extra money into that harness when no one in the market was howling to have it done. People, but not me, accepted that the price one had to pay for buying affordable lights was a crappy PnP. Now they don't have too. I include them free with Apexcone Ellipsoids.

I do happen to care about the market. I'm an enthusiast too. Long, long before most people were. I was driving the old classic bimmers when I had to buy them new in the showroom.

I started this company because I needed things for my cars that no one made. So I made them. And in manufacturing, its just as cheap to make 500 as it is 1. So there were leftover things to sell.

Hundreds of members on this board and others can attest to the fact that I was an enthusiast and ridiculous car modder long before I was selling accessories.

Now, lets look at some costs to produce and tell me if I'm just running the market into the dirt or if I'm BEGINNING to bring sanity to pricing.

H1 halogen super blue bulbs. Typical sales price: 15-99 per set. Actual cost to produce before shipping, .037 cents each. Not 3.7 cents each, .037 cents each. In bulbs, the plastic jewel case is far, far and away the most expensive part of your purchases cost to the supplier.

E36 Euro Ellipsoids: Typical sales price: 90-250 per set, ZKW = 400+ per set. I can estimate what DEPO and ZKWs cost to produce is. But I KNOW what mine is. $18.00 And I don't pay my family or myself cheap-cheap. It costs far more to pay for the boxes and shipping to get the product to America than the cost of the product inside. $18 is my cost delivered here.

Sidemarkers: Typical Sales Price: 25-60 per pair. Actual cost to produce, less than $0.22 each.

I can go on. But I'll leave it at that. Unless of course I get some more flak from whiney baby competitors out there in the market. Don't think for a moment I am hurting the market YET. You, the consumer, have been bent over a barrel and raped for a long, long time.

I've dropped the market prices a huge, huge amount and I still feel dirty going to the bank.

Oh, the next time you are shopping for that $400 affordable Bosch upright vacuum cleaner... $11 from Jeng Feng, Shanghai. That's where Bosch makes it and that's what its costs them.

Consumers need to stop being guppies, look at the stuff in their hands and realize it costs almost nothing to make. I only charge what I do to pay my 16 employees in 4 countries, and my Uncle-In-Law's factory a nice comfortable living. And I'm finding it harder and harder to justify charging as much as I do now.

I haven't even started on the big ticket items yet because nobody in it has ticked me off yet. But I am going to have an effect on suspensions. Thousands of dollars for coilovers? Please. Hundreds of dollars for Springs? Please, its a few feet of wire wound in a coil.

owwwch

05-30-2008, 11:03 PM

i love u;)

jsp98m3

05-30-2008, 11:28 PM

For all of you that have NOT yet worked for either Apexcone or DDM Tuning, we will likely be moving our location yet again this summer. We will still be hiring more people. We currently have an opening for a stockroom manager. As you might expect, this isn't a trivial job, it requires heavy experience in Operations, managing inventory. We're looking to hire a professional, not a train them up from the ground person.

Also, after we get moved, I will be buying new plastic injection molding machines. Yes, brand fricking new, and having them installed at our own facility. I'm as tired as all of you with supply chain issues. Even with family making a lot of our goods, there's that 3 week boat trip to contend with. I will be looking for 2 experienced plastic injection molding machine operators and a toolroom technician who can maintain and freshen tooling.

These will all be highly skilled and paid positions. You will spend most of your time not making car parts unfortunately. We have other pans in the fire.

So don't feel too bad for the market guys, I'm the only American (my competitor is proudly Canadian) in the market who is competing with Taiwanese and Chinese goods against a Canadian who is selling Taiwanese and Chinese goods.

So, all the suppliers and competitors are foreigners, taking away good paying American jobs ;)

Jim
Birth Certificate and Family Tree available on request.

And with that, I've got some TV that needs some serious attention.

eurotunerwerks

05-31-2008, 12:37 AM

Jim, I look forward to seeing your "rumblings" through many markets. Not just the BMW marketplace. I need a new vacuum :)

LeMansGTS

05-31-2008, 12:46 AM

TOMNGAI

05-31-2008, 12:47 AM

Damn so I should wait to make my next order? Doesn't seem likea bad idea.

jsp98m3

05-31-2008, 12:49 AM

LeMansGTS

05-31-2008, 12:53 AM

jsp98m3

05-31-2008, 12:56 AM

Jim, you really need to get angry about those suspensions. I can't wait to see what you guys will have in store for the customers. I recently posted and contacted several vendors who are having GBs and "dirt cheap" pricing on coilovers, but still found their prices to be too high. Now, I will definitely wait for DDM.:buttrock

We have been quietly producing suspensions for some non-BMWs for over a year. We have our first BMW suspension components getting delivered in about a month. These things take a little bit of time to test out and make sure everything we thought we were doing is really what popped out of the sausage machine.

But we will be adding first parts and then entire systems very rapidly if we have nailed it. There's gobs of profit in suspensions.

All those ads, those sponsorships, those hood-ho's all get paid for in excess margin. We're not going to kill anyone off. But we are going to be able to give people a solid alternative product that is made by the exact same people.

Jim

jsp98m3

05-31-2008, 12:57 AM

How about it?:shifty
:buttrock

Now if only you could get gasoline for 1.50/gallon, I would be amazed.

Get tanker, Sail to Venezuela. Denounce America. Fill up. Sail home.

Jim

Note to self, buy tanker, turn traitor to my country, drive cheap.

LeMansGTS

05-31-2008, 01:13 AM

Get tanker, Sail to Venezuela. Denounce America. Fill up. Sail home.

Jim

Note to self, buy tanker, turn traitor to my country, drive cheap.

:rofl

Jim, is there any way you could contact me privately when the DDM c/o setups will go on sale? I want to get in line and use the wholesale discount, but seem to always come to the forum at the wrong time. Same goes for the new angel eyes you're promoting.

jsp98m3

05-31-2008, 01:27 AM

Rakshas

05-31-2008, 01:31 AM

I'll be getting a set of E36M3 coilover initial samples in about 2 weeks. If you would like to be the test bunny, just say so.

There are some conditions that you have to meet that are going to cost you some money, but not much. For instance, you have to pay for your own installation and get a four wheel alignment to the specs I want. You'll be happy with the specs too.

I'd prefer that you get the car corner balanced but that's not mandatory.

In exchange for this and some honest reporting from you, you can have the system for FREE. If after a month you want to add doo-dads like camber plates etc, that's fine. But for 30 days, I'd like to have the setup as-is with no frills I don't provide.

All I ask is to be objective, realize that this is a first sample and it may turn out to not be perfect. If its total crap, I'll pay to take it off your car. Last condition. I've seen you take our side on some issues and some against us. That is fairness. If I catch you being a suck up to us after this, I'll be very angry. I can't stand tape worms.

See, being a friendly pest can have advantages. What say you?

Jim

I think I would be interested in this kind of thing. What do you say? I was getting ready to order a 1500 dollar Ground Control setup, but I'd be willing to give the DDm coilovers a run. If I don't like them, I will take them off and get the Ground Control's like I originally planned.

LeMansGTS

05-31-2008, 01:56 AM

I'll be getting a set of E36M3 coilover initial samples in about 2 weeks. If you would like to be the test bunny, just say so.

There are some conditions that you have to meet that are going to cost you some money, but not much. For instance, you have to pay for your own installation and get a four wheel alignment to the specs I want. You'll be happy with the specs too.

I'd prefer that you get the car corner balanced but that's not mandatory.

In exchange for this and some honest reporting from you, you can have the system for FREE. If after a month you want to add doo-dads like camber plates etc, that's fine. But for 30 days, I'd like to have the setup as-is with no frills I don't provide.

All I ask is to be objective, realize that this is a first sample and it may turn out to not be perfect. If its total crap, I'll pay to take it off your car. Last condition. I've seen you take our side on some issues and some against us. That is fairness. If I catch you being a suck up to us after this, I'll be very angry. I can't stand tape worms.

See, being a friendly pest can have advantages. What say you?

Jim

Sure, I would be quite interested in doing this with you. It's highly unlikely that the setup will be so bad that a failure will lead to a major accident in the middle of the freeway, right (i.e. catastrophic component failure)? If so, I'm game. Just let me know other specifics and when you would like for me to contact you. I assure you, I will be no kpipalldaway.

edit:: I would like to be a test bunny, Jim. A few years from now if you need legal defense (for criminally low pricing), I may just extend you a similar offer (should you need it). :rofl

I remember my first transaction with you way back in 2003. I called you on the phone because I accidentally received an Apexcone catalog. You initially told me that you don't do retail, but ended up helping me out. I ended up purchasing some headlight set with DDE/HID from you.

LeMansGTS

05-31-2008, 02:00 AM

incorporated above :redspot

ttkid06

05-31-2008, 04:01 AM

wow, after reading this thread, it's full of win :buttrock:redspot Jim for president?

DD/M

05-31-2008, 04:26 AM

I'll be getting a set of E36M3 coilover initial samples in about 2 weeks. If you would like to be the test bunny, just say so.

There are some conditions that you have to meet that are going to cost you some money, but not much. For instance, you have to pay for your own installation and get a four wheel alignment to the specs I want. You'll be happy with the specs too.

I'd prefer that you get the car corner balanced but that's not mandatory.

In exchange for this and some honest reporting from you, you can have the system for FREE. If after a month you want to add doo-dads like camber plates etc, that's fine. But for 30 days, I'd like to have the setup as-is with no frills I don't provide.

All I ask is to be objective, realize that this is a first sample and it may turn out to not be perfect. If its total crap, I'll pay to take it off your car. Last condition. I've seen you take our side on some issues and some against us. That is fairness. If I catch you being a suck up to us after this, I'll be very angry. I can't stand tape worms.

See, being a friendly pest can have advantages. What say you?

Jim

Take the offer!

If you don't I will. Jim I have a good friend who owns a repair/high performance shop. Getting new tires put on very soon. If you need another Beta tester for these give me a shout...I will test objectively for you if you want. Exact 4 wheel laser alignment ( with printouts), specs done the right way with weights in the correct spots in the car etc.

digitaldragon03

05-31-2008, 04:39 AM

I have never read a thread that has given me so much hope for humanity. What you are doing is unbelievable. Youre like the Radiohead of auto parts. :rofl

Kaiv

05-31-2008, 06:27 AM

I'll be getting a set of E36M3 coilover initial samples in about 2 weeks. If you would like to be the test bunny, just say so.

There are some conditions that you have to meet that are going to cost you some money, but not much. For instance, you have to pay for your own installation and get a four wheel alignment to the specs I want. You'll be happy with the specs too.

I'd prefer that you get the car corner balanced but that's not mandatory.

In exchange for this and some honest reporting from you, you can have the system for FREE. If after a month you want to add doo-dads like camber plates etc, that's fine. But for 30 days, I'd like to have the setup as-is with no frills I don't provide.

All I ask is to be objective, realize that this is a first sample and it may turn out to not be perfect. If its total crap, I'll pay to take it off your car. Last condition. I've seen you take our side on some issues and some against us. That is fairness. If I catch you being a suck up to us after this, I'll be very angry. I can't stand tape worms.

See, being a friendly pest can have advantages. What say you?

Jim

Jim, I'd be interested to do the friendly test bunny thing :stickoutt

I'm only 10 minutes away and will have lots of free time.

Also the skirts Leif brought me a while ago will finally be installed, we could take some pictures if you wish to illustrate fitment on your website.

-kevin

eurotunerwerks

05-31-2008, 10:01 AM

SoCaLe39

05-31-2008, 11:44 AM

How much R&D has been put into your suspension parts? I know you are a bottom dollar seller but usually when it comes to suspension its not the actual product you pay for but rather the R&D. I was a marketing/sales guy for Yoshimura R&D of America and can honestly say that most of the cost of the products went into weeks of R&D and dozens of runs on a dynometer. This is what you pay for "a few feet of wire coil". You state these companies make huge profits but reality is they aren't. The overhead of producing a product that requires as much R&D as Yoshimura does doesn't yield huge profits when you have an R&D team of autocad and engineering specialists making 70k+ a year not to mention the salaries paid for manufacturing.

As for the granite, hell I don't know a damn thing about that industry but if what you say is true I sure would like to talk to you more about getting some counter tops for the house. I'm also doing the marketing for a friend who owns a custom cabinet company who has been considering getting into countertops as well. He may be interested in what products you may have.

eurotunerwerks

05-31-2008, 11:55 AM

jsp98m3

05-31-2008, 12:33 PM

All the suspension products we will be selling to the BMW market initially are already being sold to you now under known and very trusted brand names. I'm just taking all the money out of their logo and neglecting to put that profit back in for our logo. You'll probably recognize the paint colors and the part numbers on the products... :)

I just want to make absolutely certain that nothing else changes.

Jim

Digitalwave

05-31-2008, 12:49 PM

Jim,

I have used too many different suspension systems to count. I currently have a name brand set of coilovers on my car. I am also a photographer and can write a half-decent article. If you'd be interested in testing the coilovers on my car, I have more comparison to offer than "these coilovers blow my stock suspension out of the water!".

Contact me.

-T.J.

eLegg

05-31-2008, 12:59 PM

LeMansGTS

05-31-2008, 01:08 PM

Jim, do you have an e-mail address I can contact you at?

-Sergei

TBM311

06-01-2008, 05:23 AM

Hi Jim,

I would also be interested in being a tester for your C/O if you are looking for someone in NorCal. I have access to a full lift and top of the line alignment machine that I can use to my liking through my brothers shops. I can make as many adjustments you want to the alignment and report back promptly. I commute everyday in my E36 M3 with a mix of heavy to light traffic on both smooth&rough roads and tend to drive with a lead foot on the weekends. If you are interested in finding more information about my car, driving habits, and myself to determine if I would be an appropiate candidate to test/eval. the C/O, please contact me via PM or email.

Thanks for your consideration.

Side question: All your products are greatly priced and was wondering if you could do anything about the corner bulb pricing. Not that they are super expensive, but they don't seem inline with the great pricing you offer on everything else =P

Bloodrunsdry

06-01-2008, 11:58 AM

How about $25 a square foot granite counter tops that cost $2.50 per square METER, including the trimouts and the edging.

Those $5000-7500 kitchen counter tops for remodels cost about $100 in real life. How about Kumho tires that are under $7 each?

The American consumer is screwed constantly.

I will jump in late on this one... lol
I fabricate countertops. There are only a few types of granite that cost 2.50 per square meter. Most of it is crap and you and i would not like it in ether of our houses. lol
also you have to think of the people working on the tops get paid and the cost of the water, tools and all that good stuff but i see what your getting at. 100 bucks is a crazy price to think it would cost.
Look at it this way my pads at work cost 20 bucks a pice at cost. there are 8 pads i use and thats over 100 just to get me started working on a top.
Anyways i picked up a set of apexcone headlights and i was not very happy with the product but you get what you pay for right.
I hope to see cost of parts go down. That would be nice. I just dont get how a set of hids could cost 80-90 bucks but just to buy the bulbs its 70.
I hope its all that you say its going to be. I would love it!!!
Keep bringing us the product and we will keep buying it.

SilburSurfer

06-01-2008, 09:35 PM

Jim, lets put it this way, if you ever need any product testing or any new products (no ass kissing garenteed) let me know. I would happily do it as i'm an owner of a machanical shop and an auto body shop so i have all the tools at my expense.

98DakarM3

06-02-2008, 12:29 AM

Jim,

If you relocation is anywhere near the pacific northwest/portland are, we will need to talk!

Anthony914

06-02-2008, 07:19 PM

Jim,

If you relocation is anywhere near the pacific northwest/seattle are, we will need to talk!
edit.....

+1

///Montizzle

06-02-2008, 07:31 PM

I would gladly be a Midwest representative for you. I go to as many weekly meets as I can in the area, and would gladly spread the word of DDM tuning. Ive already raved to everyone about how great the quality of your bumpers/service was. Plz PM me if you would like to talk

Rennmeister M3

06-02-2008, 09:43 PM

LeMansGTS

06-02-2008, 10:03 PM

What I am concerned with, as a consumer, is those of us that have purchased items before to your company's profit, are now going to suffer considerably on the re-sale of said items, or even on the valuation of the parts.

This is a two edged sword. You are going to be dropping the floor out on not only the competition, but on those that have, "been screwed" as you put it, before.

Do you think it's fair and nice for us that have spent a couple hundred bucks with DDM to suddenly see people paying half the price for the same product a month later? As someone that has spent a couple hundred bucks at DDM I can't help but feel like a complete fool now that everything is being shuffled out for half the price.

If you are going to "support the community" how about you start with those that have supported you. The people that have spent their hard earned money, rather than those that sideline.

I don't feel deceived at all. Last year I spent $350 or so on DDMs headlight setup. You can feel bad that you didn't wait a little longer to get the best price, but not deceived by any means. I mean, when you purchase an Iphone, you know good and well that it will go down in price and that it will be replaced by a better model within a calendar year. I bought an Iphone knowing this would happen, but I just wanted it THAT much. Same goes for my headlight purchase: The price was competitive and it was enough for me to pull the trigger. No bad feelings.

Deldolfan

06-03-2008, 07:54 AM

Jim,

A 20th Century prophet once said, "If we weren't all crazy we would go insane". Thank you for keeping this spirit alive! I figure you want to keep things locally, but my 1998 M3 vert is available to be a test platform. My son's E30 can be used as well if you expand to that model. And finally Delaware (home of tax free shopping!) is available for your East Coast Distribution Center. Let me know! Bill

jsp98m3

06-03-2008, 12:02 PM

Let me explain our pricing and how we are going to proceed. And for all of you that are interested in testing product, I'm going to look here for testers, I promise.

Ok, now to pricing and the laws of economics in my crazy corner of the universe.

1. We came in and broke the information monopoly everyone was suffering through. There are and never were, SPECIAL DEPO lights. There's no Gen IV for any one person. Has DEPO changed the light over the years? Sure, a little. But every vendor with halfway new inventory of DEPO had the same light. Members paid a lot for a generic product. We came in, plowed through that crap and dropped the price to reasonable levels.

2. I bought 30 days ago, now you are lowering the price! Yes, this happens. Generally within 30 days, if we lower the price, we'll give you cash back or a credit for more stuff. Your choice and dozens and dozens of members here can personally attest to this.

3. Why oh why do you do these price decreases this way?

This is the long one.

Obviously, since we've been doing this for almost a year, DEPOs don't cost anywhere near what previous market pricing would have indicated. Frankly, 2/3rds of your purchase price was pure profit for the vendors. In some cases, this is justified in the market. This isn't one of those times by normal market dynamics.

But, when we lowered the pricing, sales went up about a bazillion times in unit sales and the profit margin was slim. I had to keep even my profit margins higher than justified so I could allow for growth and fund not only normal stocking purchases but massive shipping container sized orders every two weeks. I'm still in this mode.

Our office and warehouse space has had to quadruple. Our staff has had to grow by 7 times!

My expenses to support this market have risen by over $500,000 in this fiscal year to support you. And now, I'm sponsoring E46 Fanatics and Bimmerfest. We will grow in space and personnel to accomodate that. And then we'll grow some more. All this takes money.

But, there are ways, financial models, that allow for market segmentation to allocate costs per market and keep control of the money. So, while I had to do some restraint on pricing discounts to fuel rapid growth and give all of you real, immediate discounts, I'm ready to take the next step and just not charge you a profit at all. It sounds crazy. It sounds impossible. Maybe... We'll see.

But, but, but, but....

In order to get there, we have to do a few things.

First, costs must be known exactly and updated in real time or the company will bleed money. That isn't fun.

How can you sell at no profit, you lying, idgit?

Well obviously, I can't in the exact sense of the word. But, there are cost offsets and rebates that allow me to make all the money I need, in excess of $500,000 per year in profit, that let me give you the true cost and still make this work. Don't worry, if its an unworkable fool's model, I'm the only one that will suffer for it.

If you can do this, why haven't you?

Simple, simple explanation. Remember the $100 Apexcone headlights with HID? I sold a bazillion of them and people have had to wait up to 4 weeks to get them. Imagine if I had dropped all the prices like that on every product, all at once? Oh yeah, total and complete chaos and no extra margin to order enough to recover from the backlog. We wouldn't all be happy pups would we?

So. What's the plan then?

The plan is that we will step prices down, in 2-3 steps over the summer on product after product until we get them all lowered, all the way with controlled sales numbers and sustainable stocking so we don't run out again.

Many of you have been bitter about the delay we had on the lighting due to the sales. But these are to some extent tests on my part. Test of market reaction to pricing levels. Tests of my company's ability to handle the sales levels. I admit, we got further behind on the headlight orders than I had expected. Its a good thing I did the testing even though I am very sorry about the delays. That's why the final phases of pricing reductions to zero profit will have to be done in a couple of steps over a few months. We will give you stunning prices but we want to give you stunning service too. I've learned some things and while many of you have felt it might be a frustrating experience, you did, after all, save a ton of money. And on some items, you are at the pricing we will be resting at for awhile. $100 for ellipsoids and HID is not and will not be viewed as a bad deal, I think.

So, some of you will have paid a bit more than you will if you might have waited until the 4th of July or Labor Day. Was your deal bad? Viewed in the light of other vendors on this forum selling you $700+ lighting packages and telling you that you were luckily to get that price, I think not.

And lastly, if we have a better deal that we do not previously announce and you paid more, call us. We are fair people. As I said, we give people refunds and rebates all the time if we drop a price unexpectedly.

On the other hand, in this thread, I am probably holding my own sales down and foregoing the opportunity to make money by announcing 30-90 days in advance that I'm going to lower the prices on everything. And not only that, I'm telling you I'm going to do it in 2 steps. So when I lower a price in a month, none of you will probably buy because you will wait for the second price drop. Some of you will also see a good price (even today's prices are below what other vendors will even offer for a group buy) and figure they would rather have the product now than wait for an unknown price in 1-3 months.

The end situation is that I am doing something no other vendors typically do.

1. I dropped retail prices for the market on everything we sell about 50% all at once.
2. I'm going to drop prices more even though I have zero market pressure to do it. No one touches our prices NOW. But I'm not one to take advantage, I'll drop them all I can, whenever I can.
3. I will tell you in advance I am going to drop prices and hurt my sales today so I can take even LESS money for the product tomorrow.
4. We give money back to people caught up in these scenarios.

Has anyone seen such a consistent concern for the customer instead of vendors who treat you like crap, insult you and act like they are doing you a favor when they triple their costs on their products and tell you its a group buy?

I hope everyone can see my side of it just a bit. I have had to hold prices up just a touch and test markets to make sure we can do what we have planned. Its all for your best interests in the end.

And remember, anyone can walk in and ask us what we pay for any item and tell us if they feel we are being fair. I don't even care if you tell people what our costs are. When you say you will sell something at zero profit, you better be able to back it up. Test us. We're not scared :)

DD/M

06-03-2008, 12:37 PM

:handclap

Rennmeister M3

06-03-2008, 02:19 PM

I don't feel deceived at all. Last year I spent $350 or so on DDMs headlight setup. You can feel bad that you didn't wait a little longer to get the best price, but not deceived by any means. I mean, when you purchase an Iphone, you know good and well that it will go down in price and that it will be replaced by a better model within a calendar year. I bought an Iphone knowing this would happen, but I just wanted it THAT much. Same goes for my headlight purchase: The price was competitive and it was enough for me to pull the trigger. No bad feelings.

I'll be pretty truthful. I don't care about what I stand to lose, but the market as a whole. I've seen this before in other markets, and it never really works out as well as people think. Stuff like this is the precursor to a Honda Civic / Nissan 240SX market full of stagnation and a price war over the same stuff.

There is talk about innovation, yet the only innovation I've seen is the grills for the 95's being more like the 97's. Other than that it's the same products we have had in the market for years, but at significantly lower prices. If DDM wants to talk about innovation, they need to put forth some new products that have NEW designs to fix REAL issues. THAT is the only way this market is going to move forward. I'm not talking about flexible headlights, I'm talking about oil pan retrofits, diff coolers, ITBs, cams, manifolds, FI components, etc. etc. etc. and other objects that require real engineering rather than retrofitting and replicating.

I think the Motion Motorsports in their 2 product line has done just as much innovation. They took a common problem, applied some thought, and made a solid solution that is cost effective.

Turner / Bimmerworld / Etc. these guys have all pretty much left the E36 market, and as Jim said, are just sitting around making money off their old parts. Can't blame them, race teams aren't cheap. The only way forward for us is to get energetic companies like DDM, and smaller group based businesses like Motion to work with the market to design NEW solutions, and update what doesn't work. I have ZERO problems paying good money for a good product that works. This market simply has few choices.

DDM is falling into the trap of thinking that cheap prices = better E36 market. That's just like the government thinking sending checks to people = strong economic market. :stickoutt

Don't think I'm mad, this is just a discussion, nothing more.

eurotunerwerks

06-03-2008, 02:30 PM

before DDM even came about, no one was "innovation" anything. it has been the same ole crap for the past 5 yrs. no one was willing to "innovate" before and they aren't going to after either.

LeMansGTS

06-03-2008, 02:57 PM

I'll be pretty truthful. I don't care about what I stand to lose, but the market as a whole. I've seen this before in other markets, and it never really works out as well as people think. Stuff like this is the precursor to a Honda Civic / Nissan 240SX market full of stagnation and a price war over the same stuff.

There is talk about innovation, yet the only innovation I've seen is the grills for the 95's being more like the 97's. Other than that it's the same products we have had in the market for years, but at significantly lower prices. If DDM wants to talk about innovation, they need to put forth some new products that have NEW designs to fix REAL issues. THAT is the only way this market is going to move forward. I'm not talking about flexible headlights, I'm talking about oil pan retrofits, diff coolers, ITBs, cams, manifolds, FI components, etc. etc. etc. and other objects that require real engineering rather than retrofitting and replicating.

I think the Motion Motorsports in their 2 product line has done just as much innovation. They took a common problem, applied some thought, and made a solid solution that is cost effective.

Turner / Bimmerworld / Etc. these guys have all pretty much left the E36 market, and as Jim said, are just sitting around making money off their old parts. Can't blame them, race teams aren't cheap. The only way forward for us is to get energetic companies like DDM, and smaller group based businesses like Motion to work with the market to design NEW solutions, and update what doesn't work. I have ZERO problems paying good money for a good product that works. This market simply has few choices.

DDM is falling into the trap of thinking that cheap prices = better E36 market. That's just like the government thinking sending checks to people = strong economic market. :stickoutt

Don't think I'm mad, this is just a discussion, nothing more.

Alright then. I was just up in Austin visiting the UT campus yesterday.:buttrock

jsp98m3

06-03-2008, 03:39 PM

We are developing new products and those will have their own life cycle.

As has been noted, the E36 was stagnant. DEPO and others have STOPPED making anything new for this car. In fact, they were starting to talk about discontinuing products. Seen anything new for the E30 lately?

If you can't sell the volume, the products will go away. Or they will go up in price. Usually both. Every minute of every day there are fewer and fewer E36s on the road. We jump started the market for that car again and have made it possible with lower pricing to extend the market for parts for this car some period of time longer, however short that might be. The newest E36 on the road is approaching its 10th birthday.

How long has the E46 been discontinued? The same process will have to happen to this car too. Its just the way it is.

Look at the market. Bimmian, no appreciable market presence for E36. Same for JLevi and a host of others. Propping up sales with low prices is saving the modding market for owners of E36s. That day is starting to come for the E46 too. We just aren't there quite yet. But its getting close. Really close.

The same thing is happening in al the car markets. There's not much innovation for old GTIs. We're lucky BMWs are desirable cars with retained value or the modifications would disappear completely. You won't see people putting thousands of dollars into a GTI or a Nissan Sentra on the scale that people still put money into E36s.

Every car has its lifetime and the market lets the pricing dynamics change or the market supply for that car dries up.

Here's a for instance. I used to once upon a time sell ZKWs for $270 per set. I think my cost now is up around $350 per set because of currency fluctuations. I get maybe 0.5% inquiries for ZKW. The cars are too old and who wants to put 20% of the value of an old E36 into lights when it probably needs new paint, dings fixed, reupholstery, an engine rebuild and some new wheels and tires. Sure there are some Cherries out there owned by people like us who cherish them. But, unless I can make good bucks on DEPO and Apexcone brand lights, you won't see me funding the purchase of a couple of pallets of ZKWs in the future.

Capitalism works. Even when its sad.

Jim

Rennmeister M3

06-03-2008, 04:18 PM

The sole reason there are very few new parts for the E36 community is because of excuses. Too many people are afraid of anything new, and have their heads shoved up the Roundel's ass.

The entire Japanese car market, and some of the American car markets, has proved the majority of market assumptions wrong, but the German car markets continue to be alone in standing with their heads in the sand. The worst is the Porsche community, and more and more the BMW crowd is following along.

You have only to look at the miles long threads about oil viscosity and spark plugs to tell that we are stuck as a community.

I've resulted to designing and building my own parts consisting of already proven parts from the past couple years in the Japanese community. :embarrasm

Rennmeister M3

06-03-2008, 04:19 PM

Alright then. I was just up in Austin visiting the UT campus yesterday.:buttrock

Did the traffic make you want to drive your car off a tall bridge?

BMW525i

06-03-2008, 04:21 PM

i ordered a lot of parts from you guys already, great product at the right price. ddm is awesome:)

can't wait for you guys to start selling the m3 side moldings

jsp98m3

06-03-2008, 04:29 PM

Sedan side moldings are going to be in inventory tomorrow I think. The Coupe will follow along shortly :(

jsp98m3

06-03-2008, 04:40 PM

LeMansGTS

06-03-2008, 04:42 PM

Did the traffic make you want to drive your car off a tall bridge?

Thankfully, I avoided any major traffic. I live in Houston though, so driving through I10W or heading out on 290W is a complete nightmare @4pm-7pm. Worse than Austin, I'm sure.

LeMansGTS

06-03-2008, 04:44 PM

Rennmeister M3

06-03-2008, 04:44 PM

Personally, I want to do whatever I can to extend the life of the E36 as a viable performance platform. I just love the E36.

Jim

I worked in the Japanese industry in the 240SX / Z-Car market. If you want to put heads together then feel free to email me. (admin@texasguntalk.com)

- Alan

jsp98m3

06-03-2008, 05:05 PM

Let me get done with my workforce reduction problem pertaining to Bimmerdawg's problems and I'd be happy to.

Jim

BMW525i

06-04-2008, 12:52 PM

cant wait for the price drop. even though you guys at ddm don't need to lower your prices at all.

TH3 Shifty

06-04-2008, 02:27 PM

Jim

please start carrying Rieger GT Cup Lips!!!!!!!!!! i need one ..

jsp98m3

06-04-2008, 02:55 PM

We're at the tail end of this backorder thing. I need to get a new shipping guy in here and then, we'll start in with some new products. We have a fair number of new products already in house. I just need to get them posted up.

Jim

Rakshas

06-04-2008, 07:17 PM

Long memories will remember the long list of stuff that never existed for the E36 before I modded mine.

The trouble now is that its a law of diminishing reward. Development can cost a lot of money. While there are still a lot of E36s on the road, many of them are not queens and their owners cannot afford lots of neat stuff.

Plus, in many cases, the road to whatever you want is often achievable for less money and greater performance by simply trading up. While you can go a long long way into making a improvements to the E36 suspension (most of which the driver is prrobably not good enough to exploit) it is cheaper and the overall results are better by just trading up to a competent E46. The E46 chassis is so good that it makes really mediocre drivers look good.

Personally, I want to do whatever I can to extend the life of the E36 as a viable performance platform. I just love the E36.

Jim

You make a very good point, and it's one I really just can't get around.

I keep wanting to put money into my E36, put in a new suspension, new wheels, new bumpers etc. But at the end of the day I'll have $7k worth of aftermarket parts on a $10k dollar car, that will be worth $5k by the time I'm done.

Then I think, maybe I'll just get an E36 M3 instead, but I look at the market, and none of them are much nicer than my current car, and the lowest mileage I can find it 70,000.

And then the E46 M3 is sitting there, with a much more attractive look, a better interior, more power, and a better chassis, for not that much more price.

The way the E36 aftermarket sits, I really can't justify dropping money into my car, when if I just save for a year or two, I can hop into an E46.:(